Welcome to Season 3 of the Next Peak Podcast, where we help you redefine what success looks like for you and share strategies, tools, and stories to help you climb your next peak.
Today Bud Lamb joins Dr. Parker Houston to talk about why friendship, community, and mentors are needed for men in order to thrive. Bud Lamb has been an ordained pastor for almost 20 years. He is an author, a writer, a long-distance runner, and he mentors men and encourages younger pastors. He works one-on-one and with groups over the phone or video conferencing across the United States to help men discover or recover their spiritual passion, envisioning a plan for their lives to help them overcome current circumstances and move forward in positive ways. His goal is to help them become better men, husbands, spiritual leaders, and influencers of their culture. What drives Bud’s passion and purpose is to know and enjoy God, to love as Jesus does, and to inspire others to do the same. Some of the discussion centers on:
How to build a healthy community:
Pick up Bud’s Book CHASING THE SAGE: What Men Want: Finding Purpose and Passion at Every Stage of Life
Connect with Bud Lamb on his:
Resources Mentioned:
Prodigal Father Wayward Son: A Roadmap to Reconciliation
If you got something out of today's episode, please subscribe, share it with a friend and leave us a review. You can find us on www.nextpeakpodcast.com. If you want to connect with Dr. Parker Houston, you can find him at www.leadyoufirst.com. Sign up for his weekly blog to receive some research-based tools that will help you transform your work and your life.
Until next week, keep climbing your next peak.
Welcome to Season 3 of the Next Peak Podcast, where we help you redefine what success looks like for you and share strategies, tools, and stories to help you climb your next peak.
Today Bud Lamb joins Dr. Parker Houston to talk about why friendship, community, and mentors are needed for men in order to thrive. Bud Lamb has been an ordained pastor for almost 20 years. He is an author, a writer, a long-distance runner, and he mentors men and encourages younger pastors. He works one-on-one and with groups over the phone or video conferencing across the United States to help men discover or recover their spiritual passion, envisioning a plan for their lives to help them overcome current circumstances and move forward in positive ways. His goal is to help them become better men, husbands, spiritual leaders, and influencers of their culture. What drives Bud’s passion and purpose is to know and enjoy God, to love as Jesus does, and to inspire others to do the same. Some of the discussion centers on:
How to build a healthy community:
Pick up Bud’s Book CHASING THE SAGE: What Men Want: Finding Purpose and Passion at Every Stage of Life
Connect with Bud Lamb on his:
Resources Mentioned:
Prodigal Father Wayward Son: A Roadmap to Reconciliation
If you got something out of today's episode, please subscribe, share it with a friend and leave us a review. You can find us on www.nextpeakpodcast.com. If you want to connect with Dr. Parker Houston, you can find him at www.leadyoufirst.com. Sign up for his weekly blog to receive some research-based tools that will help you transform your work and your life.
Until next week, keep climbing your next peak.
Friendships, Community & Mentors
Bud Lamb: [00:00:00] When the pressure gets turned on and you're isolated most guys go for whatever is easy.
They want to get out of the hot seat as fast as possible. They want to feel better rather than necessarily deal with the problem. And they'll do just about anything and everything to get that. And that creates just a whole other set of compounding problems. So the idea of isolation and stress and pressure, it actually brings out the worst of us.
And then momentum and the trajectory of our lives just begins to either tailspin or we work harder, we work longer, we get more focused on work, work, work, and being successful in that way.
And when we do that, we oftentimes lose a healthy relationship at home, or we wake up 30 years later and we realized that we have children, that we don't even have a good relationship with them because we've been so focused on fixing the pain through [00:01:00] work.
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:01:00] Hey, welcome back to the next peak podcast. I am. Uh, still your sit in host. Uh, I am Dr. Parker Houston, and I'm a board-certified psychologist. And I am filling in for our primary host Clint Herndon, who is still, uh, embroiled slash uh, buried in tax season right now. And today. I have the distinct honor of speaking with bud lamb.
Who is a writer, a runner, and he helps men become the best version of themselves. The best that they can be. He is also , uh,the author of a recent book called his newest book called chasing the Sage. And it's what men want, finding purpose and passion at every stage of life today, we are going to be talking about why men need friendship, community, and mentors to thrive.
This has been something that's been extremely , um, influential in my own life. [00:02:00] And I'm just super honored and excited to talk with bud today. So bud is joining us from the Santa Cruz area. And has a really cool kayak in his background. Tell us about your kayak, bud.
Bud Lamb: [00:02:12] Oh, gosh. Uh, well, first of all, it it's a beater kayak.
It's about 25 years old, 17 feet long Kevlar , um, two bulkheads. Um, it's built for ocean and long touring touring. Uh, Being out in and out and gone just in the wilderness and that's , uh, so the boat kind of reflects me. It I'm an old guy, I'm a beater I've got, I've been bruised and screwed and tattooed. And I keep coming back like the ever ready rabbit.
And so is my boat. So I, I keep that around , uh, keep it in my office , um, to remind me of. Who I am and where I'm headed. In fact, that's probably, I think one of the primary questions to be thinking and asking and answering for men is a, who am I? Who am I? And what am I doing? Yeah.
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:02:58] Well, [00:03:00] so I definitely would say that you get coolest background of a , um, I know we might be using this on YouTube later.
And so most of the time people have like, You know, boring desk or a fan, maybe like a degree or something in their background. And I'm going to have to change mine up to be more like the kayak. I do have to ask you something, something else about this though, I'm reading upside down, but it does look like it says Tesla on it.
Does your kayaks say Tesla on the side? Yes,
Bud Lamb: [00:03:26] it does. That's probably the original Tesla. This is a Tesla model. They don't make them anymore. And it does, it does not have a battery.
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:03:32] Model K, this is the model. K. Yeah. It's hard to imagine a beader since it says Tesla on the side, so, all right, cool. Well, I didn't say this about you, but you, you revealed this, that you're a wild man.
Your heart is for adventure. Uh, you are running marathons in your seventies, which is amazing. And , uh, you're you're you are a former pastor slash still a pastor and a former army service member.
Bud Lamb: [00:03:57] Yep. All of that's true, but primarily [00:04:00] human being first.
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:04:00] All right. Well, um, so yeah, let's get into the episode today.
Um, today we're going to be talking about , uh, why friendship, community, and mentors are needed for men. In order to thrive. Certainly this is something that women need to. So I think that if you're a woman and you're listening to this, you'll still get something out of this, but it's primarily targeted towards men.
And more than a decade ago, I can't believe it's been that long. But invited, you invited me into a one-year intensive men's group. And I had never done something like this before, and it changed my life in so many ways that , um, I just had no idea that I really needed this. Um, and since that time, I have watched it transform countless men.
Who've participated in this process with you. And , uh, in your book, you kind of start off with a really powerful story about you're sitting in [00:05:00] your apartment in Oregon. You're staring at your, your old army rifle or something in the corner of your apartment. And you were at a real low point in your life at that point.
So can you kind of tell us how, tell us that story and how community became so important for you?
Bud Lamb: [00:05:17] Well, I, I went into the army when I was 20 years old and I did not have any kind of sense of who I was or where I was going. So I enlisted into the army rather than, rather than be drafted. And, and I was also one of those , um, soft males in the sense that I didn't really have , any kind of a firm sense of who I was and what I was doing.
And so I was drifting. I was just playing drifting. And when I came out of the army , I, I was still drifting. And so I drifted up to Corvallis, Oregon, where I was going to somehow have pursued this romantic idea of, of getting a degree in forestry and working out in the woods. And I've became isolated. I didn't have a clue.
I didn't know a soul up [00:06:00] there. All the people that , uh, I known going into the army he'd either moved or moved on or gotten married. And I, I was , uh, I was all alone. And , uh, so I, I began acting out with alcohol and drugs. And found myself , um,just drifting, not going to college. I decided not to do that. And I , uh, I had a 22 caliber single shot, a rifle that I grew up with and I had it in the corner and in every so often it would, it would , uh, almost talk to me.
And the, it was the same, the same sentence that w that , that, that the gun would say, and it was, you can end this now. And , um, you know, it, that season , um, was one of, one of so such stark hopelessness, and I was living as a functional orphan. I didn't feel like I was connected to anything. Um, beyond just my isolated, tiny little small world.
And , um, it was , uh, it was , uh, it was a place where looking back [00:07:00] now 40 years or so. Um, I, it's hard for me to believe that that, that I was that guy, but I have come to realize that that basically we're all that guy to some degree or another. And. And we don't know how to reach out for help. Um, it's a sign of weakness oftentimes.
And so, um, yeah, that was a, that was a pretty crummy season. And by the grace of God , I, I was able to pull out of that, that dive that the, my airplane was going in and, and get pulled
out of
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:07:31] Yeah. And so , uh, Rick Warren says that our purpose often comes from our pain. And so reading, when I read that story, it helped me to understand why helping men find community and friendship and role models was such an important thing to you because you had this really painful, awful lonely experience was really heartbreaking, even just reading it.
Um, And you yesterday when we were doing our pre-show , you, you told a really cool , um, kind of anxious [00:08:00] story about not keeping community to yourself too. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Bud Lamb: [00:08:07] Yeah. Yes. The , um, uh, the experience that I have w having found friendship and found deep, authentic friendships is the tendency is to keep it to myself.
Or just us four and no more. I don't want anybody to mess with it. And there's this ancient story and it's , uh, it's, it's got a lot of different elements to it, but it's an ancient story about four men that are standing outside of the city. And this city has been under siege for, for a long, long time drought cannibalism going on in this ancient city.
Um, food is scarce, no leadership , uh, from the, from the people that are supposed to be in positions of leadership. They're surrounded by the enemy. And it's just a matter of time before, before catastrophe happens, it's almost kind of a pandemic kind of an experience, but these four guys are standing on the outskirts of town [00:09:00] and they're lepers.
They're broken, man. They're the, they're the one they're the , uh, the less stands than not known. And , um, they're standing there and they're having this discussion about what they ought to do and they decide to go , um, across the open range, out to the other side, over to the enemy. And hopefully they'll put themselves at their mercy and say, will you give us some food and hope that there'll be extended mercy?
And , um, by the time they get there, the enemy, it all left, they just led. And there was a , uh, a movement of God that was just, just terrified the enemy and the, and they were gone. So when these four lepers got there , they, they had all the food and all the water that they could ever imagine. And they are , uh, they're eaten the food.
They're stuffing themselves with their stubby little leper hands and the food. And, and they say to themselves, you know, it's not right for us to keep this all to ourselves while our countrymen are starving. And so what they did is they took what they had [00:10:00] and they went back across the open range and they shared the bounty with the entire city and the city was rescued.
And , um, you know, to me, that story has just been such a beautiful picture of, of what happens when we have experienced something and have something that is, that is incredibly valuable that we find it at great cost, whether it's , a series of life painful lessons that we find it in a marriage or friendship.
Once we have that, we become a steward of that. And that's. Part of paying it forward. And so it's not just for us, it's for us to share with others.
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:10:36] Yeah. And so over, over the years, as you've invited , um, Men into community and you've watched what it does to their lives. Um, what do you see changes when you invite them into really creating authentic friendship?
When they have a space to be vulnerable and actually share what they're struggling with and what's going on in their lives, what do you see in terms of the change and transformation?
[00:11:00] Bud Lamb: [00:11:00] Um, gosh.
Um, at the very core , they, they become guys become to realize that they are , um, that they're okay, that they don't have to hide and be a poser. That their highest and best self that they can actually live out of that they can there. It's almost as though we need others, the social mirror too, to help us see who we are.
And when we. Well, we have safe and honest, trustworthy relationships with other men, especially I think men need to be men need to be with men. And when we have that , it, it helps us, helps us see who we are in our highest and best self. And apart from that, we're really looking through a glass dimly and, and, and we, we look back to what we saw modeled by our, by our dad or our coach or uncles.
And they were broken men and uninitiated. So we're learning some bad stuff from them from the very beginning. And so when we have it, we have a, a stronger sense of health. Um, were you asking about what are some of the benefits of having community? Is that [00:12:00] part of it? You were going at Parker?
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:12:03] I wanted to know What, what you see in terms of how they, they transform.
Um, but maybe before, maybe right before we get into that , um, I was, I was doing a little research preparing for our episode and Cigna healthcare. I found this really interesting thing, Cigna healthcare last year, before the pandemic in January, did a massive study on loneliness. And now this study is cited everywhere, but they showed that , uh, 61% of Americans report that they are lonely.
So that's three out of five people in the U S say that they're lonely. Um, and it, it has a huge effect on their mental health, on anxiety and depression. And I had, I had no idea that loneliness was this big of a problem in the U S and certainly , um, The pandemic and shelter in place and working remotely.
Um, it's really, everyone says, of course this has made the problem worse. So before we [00:13:00] talk , uh, I want to just take a step back for a moment. Um, when, when people are lonely, what happens in their lives? You talked about your life, but what do you see happening in men's lives when they are isolated?
Bud Lamb: [00:13:10] Uh, When the, when the pressure gets turned on and you're isolated , um, most guys go for whatever is easy.
They want to get out of the hot seat as fast as possible. You know, they want to feel better rather than necessarily deal with the problem. And, and they'll do just about anything and everything to get that. And, and that creates just a whole other set of compounding problems when that happens. Um, so, so the idea of isolation and stress and pressure, it actually brings out the worst of us.
It puts us in this crucible of , uh, well we're all alone to deal with it. And so nobody's watching, so why not? Um, and, and then momentum and the trajectory of our lives just begins to either tailspin or we, we, we work harder. We work longer. Uh, we get more focused on, on , uh, work, work, work, and being successful in [00:14:00] that way.
And when we do that, we oftentimes lose a healthy relationship at home, or we wake up 30 years later and we realized that we have children, that we don't even have a good relationship with them because we've been so focused on, on, on fixing the pain through work.
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:14:20] Yeah. So two things I want to pull out of that so that our listeners hear it clearly , um, really, really, really common for men to find their whole identity and value in the workplace.
So that's like a really, really obvious clear one. And , um, another thing you mentioned is , um, addiction. I know you have a background as a recovery pastor and helping people with, with addiction. And so you're a big proponent of that. And people can have addictions of all kinds of varying levels. Can't they
Bud Lamb: [00:14:49] just to be about anything?
I like to joke about it. You know, I've, I've, I've struggled with recovery over from a lot of different things and anywhere from Oreo cookies to cocaine, [00:15:00] to alcohol, you know, um, anything we can do to make us feel different, feel better rather than be better.
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:15:10] Wow. Yeah. So, so what you were saying is sometimes life can be going along okay.
While you're alone as a man. And then as soon as you hit a real stressful point in your life, we start reaching out for SU self-soothing numbing things to make us feel, right.
Bud Lamb: [00:15:29] Yeah. And typically we learned that from our dads,
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:15:33] we
Bud Lamb: [00:15:33] learned how to do that by our fathers. Yeah, we need to do is take a look at our dad and go, that's probably going to be me.
But the interesting thing is, you know, Clint would talk about the slight edge principle, this thing about , uh, um, uh, the impact of our dads , uh, on man and friendship. My dad was a loner. Um, but when we, when I, when we look at it, yeah, a guy looks at his life from, you know, like the last year or two. [00:16:00] And he doesn't have the benefit to see the span of it like a 30 or 40 year life of we can find ourselves , um, truly drifting our entire lives and not knowing it.
And I think that's one of the, one of the, one of the tragedies about how isolation and aloneness can just become, we wake up and we go, Oh my gosh, how did I end up here? Nobody knows who I really am.
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:16:26] Mm. Yeah. You know, the , um, it's weird that we're talking about this too, because , uh, the blog that I wrote this morning , um, is about role models and mentorship.
And I think the older I get as a psychologist, a lot of human behavior is really not that complicated. Um, John Maxwell has said that people do what people see, it's the first law of leadership. And so if our primary role model is our dad, yeah. It's very likely that we will end up consciously or unconsciously , um, copying those same behaviors.
And so who we follow and watch is just, is extremely important.
[00:17:00] Bud Lamb: [00:16:59] Yep.
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:17:00] So, um, so we talked about some of the risks. Uh, one, one other thing that you had said when we were talking before is what happens when a man has no friends to share his problems with like, what's the effect on the marriage. Can you talk about that?
Bud Lamb: [00:17:16] Hmm. Yeah, the effect on the marriage. Well, uh, I guess a guy will want. Men will often talk to their wives about stuff that they, that they really ought to be talking with men and their crying about. And it puts a, an unnecessary burden. It puts a burden on a woman, on a man, on a wife to hear a husband talk and in process things, because that's what a guy does with somebody else around the fire or on the trail.
You know, or on the water, you know, we, we talked to guys and, and we, and we're , um, we're getting it out. We just need to get it out. And we're not even sure what we're trying to get out , but, but, but it's, it's finding its way out when we do that with our wives, typically that sends our wives into a tailspin because they don't have any idea how to, how to do [00:18:00] this.
And so they dropped into mom mode and. If, if, if, if as a husband and a wife, the relationship has that dynamic in it, it won't be long before the wife begins to resent the husband,
because he's in a sense coming to her as a, as a, as a boy. And , um, uh, our wives don't want to be married to boys. They want full on men. And, and so, so the, one of the best ways to be a full-on guy fully engaged in that is have, have a great group of men that you can, you can go out, buy behind the barn and stomp around in the dirt and throw up and get stuff out.
And , uh, without that , um, like I said, it puts an unnecessary burden on our wife. So either we, we go on one hand where we, when we start telling our wives everything, we, you know, that some of which is good, but some of it's we don't need to, or we isolate and we just shut our wives off and everybody else.
And both of those, you [00:19:00] know, uh, uh, ends of the spectrum are unhealthy. And so, so we need a male community. To be the best husband's best man that we can possibly be.
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:19:11] Yeah. So I love that. And what I take away from it is we need a pressure release valve, so that all that pressure doesn't get released , um, at our wives too, because that the burden of all of our , um, struggles and stress and things that we're going through is just too much for any one person, maybe to be the recipient for exactly.
So turning to , uh, the benefits and what do you, what are the benefits of having community and mentors and great friendships as a man? What do you see as a, what transforms in a man's life when that happens?
Bud Lamb: [00:19:43] Uh, uh, you got a team , um, you have a team of folks that you can ask questions to. You can leave, reach out to an and, and borrow tools.
You know, one of the best things that I have is my best friend, Dennis. He lives about two, two blocks from, from here. I have access to more tools than I could ever want to [00:20:00] buy. And, and so I get, I get to borrow his tools, but I get to. You know, see him and check in and say, how's it going on? What's going on?
You know? And that, that part of connection and, and , uh, what do you call it? Not, yeah, I guess it's community, but it's by, it's kind of like being a neighbor and having a, and having, not so much a tribe, but being known and not being a stranger in your own home or neighborhood. And , uh, that's one of the, one of the things that , that, that, to me, one of the biggest benefits is we, we, we can have, we're not alone.
Yeah. We have people that care about us and they will do, will help us and listened to us. And , uh, that's tremendous. Apart from that , we're, we're just , we're, we're just so alone and we don't know where to go. Or what we were talking a little bit about yesterday, or we, we have what Scott pecs talks about in that is this idea of pseudo [00:21:00] community as compared to authentic community.
And the idea of pseudo community is it has the illusion of deep connection, but it's really all surface. It's all about. You know what we did last weekend or what I'm going to do next weekend or what the struggle I'm having at work or the thing with my wife or whatever. It's all that surface stuff. It has nothing to do with what's real.
And, and so authentic community on the other hand is real. And, you know, I'll tell you, that's what I love about this conversation here, Parker. It, it's just real, it's not scripted. It's not pretty there's starts and stops to the conversation. And that's real, you know? Um, so, uh, one of the, one of the. Uh, benefit.
Are we talking benefits again?
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:21:46] Well, let me just piggyback off what you're saying and , uh, give an illustration. Um, this season has been extremely difficult in my marriage and , um, it's just been a hard season. Um, we're doing well. I love my wife. She is my best friend, but we can't deny that it has been really hard and it's been hard on us and we've had to [00:22:00] navigate a lot of, a lot of issues over the last year.
And. At the times when I felt the most stressed out and at my lowest, I picked up the phone and I called guys from the group that we've been mentioning. Um, and if I didn't have that, the difference between having that and not having that , um, There I was starting to feel isolated and alone and in the dark and more hopeless.
And to be able to pick up the telephone and call another guy at any point and share what was going on. It just, you mentioned, we talked about this too. It just shifts. It has the ability to shift everything, our perspective, our level of hope , um, and to, to not have to not have had that. I don't know how I would've gotten through this season.
Bud Lamb: [00:22:42] Well, the, the way you would have gotten through the season is you would have spent $180 with a therapist for only 45 minutes. And this just saves you a ton of money,
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:22:53] all the, all the bad ways that I cope with stress too. Right. I mean, it's very easy to go down a bad path. So yeah. [00:23:00] Other benefits that you see.
Bud Lamb: [00:23:01] Oh , um, um, I, I, ideas and resources, you know, um, it, it, to me, it goes all the way back to just collaborating about stuff. You know, w when I don't have authentic relationships, male relationships, it's up to me to figure everything out.
But, you know, I have a couple, a couple of guys that I've talked with every week. And just the fact that I can bring up issues like, you know, for the last three weeks I've been dealing with the , uh, a brake issue on my fifth wheel trailer, you know, and I just can't figure that out and I've gone to the dealer and I've, I've had a repair guy look at it.
Um, but I was talking to my friend, John. And John's a real smart guy he's just handy. Um, and he said, you need to take a look at that seven pin connector that's coming in from your trailer into your truck. And, and it was just. Okay, great. And I did it and it's, it looks like I'm going to solve the problem.
And, you know, there's, there's any number of things like that. Um, I have a friend who who's a Wiz with finances and [00:24:00] investing and he asked me it's good friend, great friend. And he was curious about my retirement. Um, uh, what things look like when I choose to retire? Cause you know, you don't make a kind of money as a pastor, but, and so he was able to ask me about that in a safe way.
And he's going to help me with a very private kind of thing. And you know, friendships can do that without that we have to, like I said, we have to pay people, help us. Um, and uh, So anyway,
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:24:30] yeah. Yeah. Psychology research to supports this quote that you and I have talked about. Jim Rohn says, you're the average of the top five people you spend the most time with.
And gosh, if that has not come back to me time and time again, that we do become who we spend time with. And all the psychology research shows that your health habits, even your weight , uh, the health conditions, you have your income, your belief system , um, All of these things are dramatically affected. Bye.
Um, we [00:25:00] can't just use willpower to get out of it and it's, they're all affected by our social environment. And so having this community of men and even what's been really valuable to me is men that are 10, 20, 30 years older than I am just gaining their wisdom has been so amazing too, because they just have years and a perspective that I don't have.
And that was that's. That was so valuable for being part of that group. Great. Let's let's switch now and talk about why, why do men end up alone? Like, what are the barriers that get in the way?
Bud Lamb: [00:25:34] Oh gosh. Um, uh, I guess we, we, we learned from our fathers or from, yeah, from our fathers, you know, one of the barriers that I have is I never saw my dad with great friends.
I saw my dad , um, as a, as a mentor to younger men. But I don't remember my dad having friends.
I can't remember. Well, I can remember. I remember one friend my dad had, but they, they were basically drinking buddies. And other than that, my dad was [00:26:00] not, he was basically friendless. So I think we don't understand it. Um, which is, which is one barrier. Um, another barrier is , uh, To to having , um, Ranzie is we on some level, I learned who to trust and who not to trust in high school.
And , um, I was never, I played basketball in high school and, you know, I was never a star, but I loved the game. And, and , um, I can, I can always remember that there were guys that were on the inside that were on the first team. And they seem to have, you know, a different attitude about stuff and I didn't fit into that.
And, and so not fitting into the cool and the hip , um, um, either I would default to, you know, to, to, to simpler easier friendships or I would default to do, I don't belong anywhere. And so, so that, that that's, that's a barrier. Um, Um, guys have never experienced it. We , uh, I know that that for myself, there was this season, not long after the gun thing where my self-confidence was very, very low [00:27:00] and I was kind of insecure about everything, you know?
So having a friendship or having somebody that, that , uh, you know, Because friendships take time and work, you know, it doesn't, we just don't start off there, stole painful to get started and we don't know how to do it. Um, and so, uh, you know, you can invest a lot of time in the wrong kind of people. And then you end up with, you know, crummy friendships in your average goes down since.
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:27:27] Yeah. So what I take from that is that , um, we may not know what we're looking for. If we haven't taken the time to think about it, we may have not had good role models , um, for what a great friendship actually looks like. And so that makes it more difficult to look for and to find. And it takes a lot of time.
And I, I know of a lot of men that spend most of their time in the workplace and , um, they just don't make the time to create those friendships. Or as you said, it can also be very , uh, surface [00:28:00] level. It might be just based around drinking or sports or hobbies or something like that. And it never goes to this more.
Um, I think you said like the level of the heart.
Bud Lamb: [00:28:09] Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:28:11] So maybe just in closing , let's, let's talk about this. Uh, I wanna just kind of transition to this , um,idea of our fathers and how that affects us, because that's something that you , um, have helped a lot of folks work through and it was something that , um, you shared with me at a really critical part in my life.
Um, we do get so many of these habits from our fathers and , um, My dad died about six years ago. And you came alongside me during that time. And , um, I had a lot of anger and resentment towards my dad. And you had encouraged me , um, you know, Parker, how do you want to go into this? How do you want your dad to remember these kinds of last months?
How do you want to feel about these last months with your dad? And I am confident that had you not come alongside me and, and kind of challenged me to do that. I would feel a lot of regret [00:29:00] around the way that I handled it in the way that I treated my dad on his death bed. And so, um, I just wanted to thank you for doing that.
And I wonder how many men, how many men are dealing with , uh, resentment towards their dads and how they should approach that and why it's important. So can you talk about that for a minute too? And you had, you had your own experience with your father.
Bud Lamb: [00:29:20] Oh man. Yeah. This, this father and son thing , um, they.
You know, we, we , as, as a kid, we always look at our lives through our own filter and we have no idea, really. We're not interested in the fact that, you know, when my dad was , uh, 35 years old , um, he had , um, four kids under the age of 10. He was beginning his second. He was , um, his second large assignment in his work.
And the stress was very high. He moved the entire family from one part of the country to another. This is happening. And when he was 35, from my standpoint, as a kid, as a, as a, as a ten-year-old, where was dad? He was, I [00:30:00] was abandoned. He was gone. He was not showing up for baseball. He was not coming to any of my games.
He was coming home late. He always smelled like beer. He was hiding out in his, in his room. He was, he was not around and. Um, once I moved into my mid thirties and started realizing who I was becoming, the playing field, got a whole lot more level with my dad. And I was able to see him as much as a journey man, as I was in the process.
And. I believe sooner or later , uh, we, man , uh, skies, we have to come to terms with that, that our dads were doing the best that they possibly could with the hand of cards that they got dealt. Yep. And something Sam keen, Sam and Gifford keen talk about in, in their book. Uh, prodigal son, prodigal father. I think that's the title is the son says to his dad, in essence, the statute of limitations is, [00:31:00] is up.
I am. I'm no longer going to hold yours, hold you to that standard that I can't even live to myself. And I believe it's the sun needs to make the movement to the dab, to extend forgiveness, to put the resentment away and to see your dad like any other man, every man doing the best they can with what they have.
And meet them on those terms rather than on, you need to show up in a way that I think you need to do you do that. You're being a punk kid again, be a man, step into the man thing, extend grace and reach out to that. Father is yours. That's waiting, waiting for a man to do that.
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:31:39] Yeah , that's, that's so powerful.
It even stings me a little to still hear you say that because , um, that was my heart towards my dad. Just deep frustration and resentment and a lot of anger. Um, of course my dad had amazing qualities of unconditional love also, but , um, had I not gone through that process, I would have so much regret about the way that I [00:32:00] navigated that season when my dad died and , uh, You, you shared a story about sitting on a bench with your dad too at the end of his life.
And , uh, I think you were maybe echo, was it echo Lake? Yeah,
Bud Lamb: [00:32:11] it was echo Lake in October and the wind was howling. It was howling. And then we're on. And by the way, this, this was after years of me doing this alcoholic soul work and my faith work of having God, you putting me back together in ways that I couldn't do it on my own.
And literally we were sitting on this stone bench basing , uh, I guess it'd be North down towards the lower Lake. And , uh, we spent we're wrapped up in blankets and I don't know, my dad is 75 or almost 80, and I'm in my late fifties or something like that. And from a distance from behind it's too, and people were looking at what they were doing.
And, and what my dad and I were doing, they would probably see two old guys sitting there having a conversation. They would never guess this. This was father and [00:33:00] son and the , uh, the thing with fathers and sons. It's not how we start till we finish. And as sons, we can take the initiative with our dads. And finish well, wow.
It won't be easy, but we can do this.
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:33:17] Yeah. And, and , uh, it just, I love that story. I think about it all the time. Um, so I'm glad you got a chance to share it here, but , uh, being part of that, the group of men, just to kind of in a recap , um, I was able to finish that season with my dad finished well, because of your encouragement and the encouragement of the other guys in the group.
And even at his funeral, I looked out and I had this ocean of faces, maybe 15, 20 guys from the group. Um, supporting me at the moment where my dad died when I was speaking at his funeral and the feeling that I had from that kind of emotional support and a community of people and men supporting me , um, was just incredible.
And I also gleaned so [00:34:00] much from your wisdom having been way ahead of me on the, well, let's not say way ahead, but ahead of me on the journey and navigating that with, with your dad , um, Was so helpful because it was something I didn't know about because I hadn't been through it. So, um, in closing, why don't we talk about how so if men are alone and they are feeling isolated or they see themselves drifting towards that, how can they take action to begin to develop a sense of community around them?
Bud Lamb: [00:34:27] Uh, great question. I think the first thing is to, to realize that in order to, if you don't have , uh, uh, honest friendships, you need to practice being an honest friend , um, you know, like be one to find one. Um, and then, then realize that you're going to , um, just keep, just put what I do is, is I'm. I will, I will tell us I'll meet somebody and I'll.
I'll tell a story about myself or something, or I'll ask them a question about themselves and, and I'll just keep initiating and asking. And if, if I get a response, then typically what I'll do is I'll invite them to a cup of coffee, or I'll say, you know, let's go for a run or [00:35:00] whatever. I'll look for some common thread and unfortunately, or fortunately, whatever it is.
But I think whether it all comes down to it with regards to this idea of. Friendship building is take initiative. Don't wait people don't if you take the initiative, if you need it , ask, ask for people just flat out, ask, all they can say is no, but ask. I think that's absolutely the first thing first. And the last thing, probably just take initiative and keep up, keep it up.
Um, go to a church, go to a 12 step meeting, go to, go to a. Um, join a runners club, you know, uh, going into, go on a trail hike with some people go , uh, what did they have over at Bayside church, Bayside, adventure, sports, you know, go be part of something like that. Uh, hang out with people who like you want to be join , uh, uh, ju uh, uh, you know, as, as a zoom , uh, team meeting on something and chat with somebody and go, but take the initiative.
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:35:54] Yeah, and I, I might just add one last thing to that, that , uh, making the time, like, it might mean you gotta dial back [00:36:00] your hours at the office, because if you don't have the space for friendship, it can't grow. Um, well, it has been an honor to have you on the show, but I know people are going to get a lot from , um, thinking about this topic.
I think it's one of the most important things that they could possibly be , um, thinking about. Um, especially as we get more digitally disconnected. Um, is there anything else you want to add before I wrap us up?
Bud Lamb: [00:36:19] No. Just, just keep it up. Thanks for inviting me to be part of the part of the show this week.
Parker. I appreciate it very much.
Dr. Parker Houston: [00:36:24] Awesome. Nice to hang out. Yeah. Well, great to talk with you in this forum. And , um, so yeah, thanks for joining us on the next peak podcast. I want to recommend Bud's website. It is bud lamb.com, B U D L a M b.com. It'll be in the show notes. So check out his website. If you're interested in his mentoring services.
And , uh, also check out his book on Amazon, which is chasing the Sage and you can find his podcast, which is called bud lamb talks on just about any platform that you would look for. So [00:37:00] until the next episode, keep climbing your next peak.